Transcript (auto-transcription, not proofread)

Hello, Bonjour, Fulture and of course I'll have to say Gutnar and welcome to everybody to the motivated classroom podcast we are live the CI reboot.

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We are here on the Facebook page. Streaming out across the world and I'm delighted to have the fantastic Tina Abour

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 and Grant Boulanger right in front of me. We're going to go to them and say hello very quickly.

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This is I just confirmed it is the 4th livestream that I've done for the CI reboot which kind of blows my mind that this has been going on that long the podcast so it's a i feel very fortunate very lucky and humble to be able to speak to such amazing people as part of this podcast and it is exactly the same today.

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So, so thank you so much, Grant and Tina for taking time to speak to everybody today. Now of course this is the motivated classroom podcast.

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Everyone so we start with our little bit of Irish. And today I'm going to do one bit of retrieval practice.

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This is what we did ages ago and that is the word lekaila which means together lay Kayla.

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Towards and then larger. So larger means strong or strength. So if we said, you know, larger, a would mean strength together.

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So that's the Irish for today, everybody. I was loving the fact that some people reached out to me after the Oscars and said that they recognized when I'm when a Killian Murphy was speaking some Irish right at the end of his Oscar speech and people like I got that from the podcast.

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And so I think that's a nice one for today. So if you're trying to say strong, you say larger and La Ka is together.

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Fear, Moggat, GERM, MAKE, ARE, MAKE, A, MAKE, A, MANGAGE, thank you everybody. So that was pretty cool.

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Okay, so 1st just was say quick hello. So, Tina, how are you? Everything good for you are in Germany?

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Hi, yes, perfect. I'm so thrilled and excited to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

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Thank you. You're welcome. It's great to have you. And Grant, hello over there in the United States.

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How are things there?

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And good afternoon, good evening. Things here going well. I'm also very, very, humbled and pleased to be invited to be here with you today.

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All right, well, we're going to get straight into chat and all about this in a couple of minutes, but before we do that, I just want to say a very quick thank you to everybody who has been sharing about the podcast who has been talking to other people about it who's been passing things around like the amount of people now who log in is is is pretty incredible when I see all the different people from around the

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world and I think these live streams are ones that really have a lot of traction. So it is currently just to let everybody know it is June, the 20, th 24. It's the end of the month.

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I have just had my last day at school. I just taught my last Spanish class a few hours ago so I am officially on my holidays which is very exciting but you may be listening to this at any time.

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Of course this will be out there for everyone to listen to and the video will be a available as well.

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So today we are talking about inclusion. Motivation and acquisition. Those 3 big things and one of the big things I wanted to look at today was how teaching with a comprehensive input focus looks and feels in different contexts.

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So one of the things people often come back to me after a workshop or training is This sounds great, Liam, but I don't think it would work in my context or Iowa Street curriculum or I've got massive classes or I've got really small classes and so it's really nice to talk to people working in different situations and how it looks and feels and.

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You What are the buyer ears? What are the supports? And we're going to look at all of that today.

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So Tina discovered teaching with comprehensive input during an internship and an American high school very similar to myself.

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So I'm going to start with my introductions. So 1st of all, I'm going to talk about Tina.

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During 6 weeks she experienced how the students successfully acquired German in classes taught with the CI approach. She's been applying the same techniques in her own classes ever since and presented workshops and CI activities and techniques at international conferences.

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She teaches English and French at a gymnasium in the Frankfurt area in Germany.

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She's also the founder and chairperson of the fund that's FU with 2 ends, 2 ends, association, a nonprofit group of dedicated teachers who strive to spread the word of its CI in Germany through their annual CL conference.

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I have heard it is fantastic. Yanik Vanderstock and tells me all about how wonderful it is and I know you had some brilliant speakers and I think it's very cool that you do it all about how wonderful it is. And I know you had some brilliant speakers and I think it's very cool that you do it all in German.

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I think that's very cool that you do it all in German. I think that's really, really cool.

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That is a great way to get everybody on board and from the locality as well. So well done for that.

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Want to take a take the quick drink of water before I introduce Grant. I need to have a dry mouth for this or I need to be ready to talk about him.

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So, Brian, Boulanger is an innovative public educator living in St. Paul, Minnesota.

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He was the 2,017 act for national teacher of the year for languages. And finally, sorry, national language to the Europe finalist. Well done, Grant.

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Bye.

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Thank you, thank you. And co-founder of the Conferenceville with West Conference.

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He holds a BA from Gustavus Adolphus College and a master's in education in second languages and cultures education from the University of Minnesota.

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And I can also say, Grant is a fantastic professional development leader and trainer of workshops in comprehensive input because Almost 10 years ago, I think it was 9 years ago.

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I think it was 2,015. Maybe it was 2,014. And Grant came to the little school I worked in in Switzerland and delivered a workshop.

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On teaching with comprehensive input. And I luckily had also been trained by BET Skeleton and had some other trainers come to school and Grant was part of that jigsaw puzzle that really made me see how powerful this is.

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Not just from acquisition, but really from an inclusion perspective of how we can make everybody feel welcome and part of our classroom through this approach and I thought it was really really powerful and that really has led in a big way to to me now having this podcast and delivering workshops and speaking at conferences about comprehensive input.

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So, so first, st Gagarassi has a brand for the inspiration you gave me all those years ago.

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I really appreciate it. And so, Grant, I guess we'll start with you in that one.

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That's

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Can you tell us a little bit about where you work or worked and and why did you start teaching with a comprehensive input focus?

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5 that in that 2015, 10 years ago. A little 2 day training and it's snowballed for you into such an amazing contribution to the field.

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Sure, yes. Thank you. 1st of all, it's hard to it's hard to imagine, isn't it?

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I just I'm so thrilled about that. Yeah, so, I just finished my 25th year of teaching.

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Absolutely.

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I started, in the year 2,000. And have always been in the public school realm. And mainly in the middle school.

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So grade 6 7 and 8 or ages 12 to 1514. And with some in the high school as well.

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And, I started teaching in a language immersion program. My Spanish was, was good enough that that I was hired to teach content and those students were mainly from the dominant culture here in, Minnesota.

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So mostly, white students mostly pretty privileged and but I didn't have a full track and so I had to also teach beginning level Spanish and Seeing the contrast between students who had been in.

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Surrounded in the language since kindergarten versus those who were starting that was shocking to me.

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My experience at Concordia Language Villages, living the language had already taught me that I did not want to be a textbook teacher.

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But I had a hard time taking that. That innovative. Living the language kind of concept and putting it into the walls of a classroom.

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And, and so I started to, I started to look for, ways to, make that happen.

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Right.

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And I also started to look for ways. To avoid having the majority of my students quit, taking a language after 2, you know, 2 years.

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Yeah.

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So that's really how I got started in around 2,004, 2,004, 2,004, 2,005.

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I attended a workshop on at the time it was TPRS. It's really how I got started in around 2,004, 2,005.

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I attended a workshop at the time it was TPRS. My mother who was my 1st Spanish teacher and I attended that workshop together.

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Okay. That's very cool.

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Yeah, and I was I was absolutely inspired and in awe of her because after teaching for 28 years.

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Yeah.

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Maybe 30 I don't recall exactly. She came away from that multi day workshop through everything a way that she had done and said this is gonna be better.

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I'm gonna change right now and that was a real inspiration for me to also make that same change.

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Nice. That's really cool. Yeah, it is so powerful when you actually see it in action, you know, when you really see while teaching with a comprehensive input approach can achieve in a very short amount of time, particularly with the lower levels to get started.

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And so that's when I that's kind of when I started. So yeah.

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Right.

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But of course we still need to use lots of input with the advanced styles but it's it's It is very, very powerful to kind of witness.

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And then what about you, Tina, then how did you get started teaching with CI? I know you've mentioned that you had did an internship in the American school.

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Can you tell us a bit more about that?

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That was an amazing experience, because I had just lived in Paris for one year, and I thought I need to go to an English-speaking country was kind of hard to get an internship, but after a while I got one, and I'm a French teacher so mostly I and English so I watch those classes and they were pretty much the same as in Germany textbook lessons and so on

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and it was just a coincidence that I saw they had a German program, and I have to be honest Americans are not really famous for the German skills, so I really wanted to that class, and my expectations were like super low.

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Okay.

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I thought it was going to be a disaster, and I really don't know. So I went into that.

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It wasn't a container. It was in Long Beach, California. The first thing I saw was that container was packed in Germany.

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We complain about having thirty students in a room Auntie had over forty students, so I thought, my God, this is a popular teacher, and then I just saw the most amazing lessons.

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Wow.

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Everybody was fluent in German, no textbook. It was all laughter the classes were taught in one hundred percent target language, and after, like forty five minutes, I was like, What is it that you're doing here?

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My God, I will never leave your side. Please teach me. Yeah. And I'm here is like my role model, my close friend now, and I've learned so much from her. And this is how I we've discovered Ci.

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Yeah.

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Wow, fantastic. It's so interesting, isn't it, that we all came across teaching with a comprehensive input approach.

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Kind of when we were already established teachers as in we didn't learn about this in teacher training college we didn't learn about this in our masters in education we didn't learn about this in our postgraduate diploma in education and I remember thinking back like what did they talk about CI in my in my postgraduates plan man and look you know I loved my postgraduates employment education I thought it

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was fantastic like I really did enjoy it and I left there thinking I was really good teacher and I think I was at the textbook and grammar I was pretty good.

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But the only thing they talked about comprehensive input was like, you know, maybe an hour when we were talking about methods and it just kind of crashed and came up a little bit and input is one thing that's important and then we just kind of moved on and talked about all sorts of other things but I think now we're becoming more and more, you know, there seems to be.

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And agreement in the second language acquisition field and research now that even though like Stephen Crashon's work was criticized by the academic population, which is a good thing.

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It's a good thing if you're an academic for people to look at your work and question it.

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That's a good thing. It means that we have to do more research and find it. But now all the researchers are essentially agreeing that CI is like I like to call it the active in ingredient in acquisition.

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So if you think about Toothpaste, you know, like all 2 paces are wise and might they might have a little straight they all usually come in a tube but the active ingredient is fluoride.

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Like that's what makes your teeth. Clean and if you can have you can have all sorts of different flavors and shapes of toothpaste but if it doesn't have fluoride it's not going to work and for me that's comprehensive link put like you need interesting compelling comprehensive inputs or else Everything you're doing is just gonna fall apart at the edges.

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It's not going to have the impact and I think it's great to see the kind of field all now saying, yeah, we really agree with this.

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And now let's get some strategies going that we can use in the class. And I guess that's kind of where I want to go to my next question.

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Focus on interesting inputs and less explicit grammar. At least in most of the schools and teachers I talk to is still in the minority.

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The majority is still the way I learned languages, which is you learn the grammar first, st lists of vocabulary, you fill in the blanks and then one or 2% of the class become really good at it and 98% stop or don't really care.

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So I'd like to know like based on your context, know how to see it that your CIA approach, how is it greased by colleagues?

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Do they know much about it? Is there a lot of skepticism? Like what do they think?

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So maybe Grant will start with you and I know a lot of CI workshops and trainers come from the US.

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I'm wondering are you kind of more ahead than we are in Europe with our understanding of it? So what's it like for you?

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Hmm. Yeah, I, I can't speak to that whether it's more ahead, than in Europe.

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I mean, I guess by, the numbers of conferences and things like that. Perhaps, you know, we've got Judy in France and Tina in Germany and and And you there in Switzerland and some stuff happening in Spain, but, but I don't know.

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I think that, whether, you know, as to whether or not it's, how it's received in the United States.

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It really depends. It's important to remember that the United States is vast. There's lots of different educational.

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Settings and things like that. When people ask me a question like this, I'd like to start with a with a story and that story.

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Hmm.

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Is one of this is a true story. I around the year 2010 started teaching in a new district and I was teaching at the 8th grade level.

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And there was a split between the 8th grade and the high school. So I was teaching level one and 8th grade.

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There weren't any other Spanish teachers in my building. So I just did what I do. And had a great year, had great success, and the following school year.

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My students matriculated up into 9th grade and after about 10 days or so the teacher who had given them a photocopied.

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Pre test from the textbook that they were using as a curriculum. Source stood up and said everybody that was in this class.

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Taught by this person, you all need to go back down and reregister for level one over again because you were taught wrong.

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And, and that was, and I found out because a lot of teachers and students came back to me and said, they're telling me that we were taught wrong.

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Okay.

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What's going on? And it was a real. It was a real shock, but I, with the help of my principal, eventually met with that teacher and some other folks, I invited them into my classroom.

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And they came in that it took until about March but they came in in march they happened to come in on a Friday Friday was when I was doing a free write.

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They, I invited them to take a look at some of the writing that my students were doing. And you know, this teacher said to me after the class was over.

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She apologized and she said, I'm really sorry. I had no idea the writing that your students are doing is far superior than the 3rd year students that I'm teaching.

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And so When we think about how it's being accepted. It makes a big difference. You know, I made some mistakes in that era that that I'm not making again and but it makes a big difference the collegiality we have the trust that we have with our colleagues when we introduce these new ideas or these different ideas.

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Wow. Wow.

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And it also makes a big difference what a person's personal beliefs are and how quickly they will be able to come to this idea that what we've been doing for a hundred plus years in the United States.

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Has not been effective except for for the very few. And for the college bound and for the mostly white and for the already high achieving.

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And, you know, so in recent years, I take that equity piece and I start with that and I, say, you know, is this, Is this the output that we really want?

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Are we really prepared to say that 95% of these students can't learn another language? I'm not prepared to say that, right?

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Yeah.

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So, So that's that's how you know that's how things are going from my perspective it is growing across the United States that's for absolute sure and it's exciting to see.

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Just to jump on top of what you said there at Grant, like really really fascinating and like I've been certainly resonate with a lot of that and I have plenty of anecdotes that are very very similar.

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What's your feeling on? Like the level of language of the teachers as in does that impact their openness to teaching with Like for example.

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If you have a teacher in Minnesota who's teaching French or German and if they are feeling that they're level is not as high as they would like it to be.

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Do you think that impacts them going? Oh, I'm not sure about this. I'm going to stick with the textbook.

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Absolutely, it's a very touchy situation, right? Because the each state within the united states has their own teaching standards and they have their own expectations for proficiency levels for language teachers and things like that.

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And so It is a possibility that somebody who is teaching a language may not have a lot of confidence to teach in a communicative.

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Way. I have heard from a number of people that that teaching CI has helped improve their own.

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Level of language and I think that that's probably true, but it does take a lot of courage if a person is in that position to embark on that journey.

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Yeah, like that's certainly something I I see and I feel a bit more like. I, some of the reasons I feel like it's being better received in some countries in Europe than others like in Spain, for example, is that many of the Spanish teachers who are really running with CI are teaching English and they have a very very high level of English like really high level and and therefore they feel really comfortable doing this.

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Whereas when I speak to teachers in the UK in Ireland, many have a very high level, but not all.

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And they would be the 1st to say that. They'll be like, yeah, I kind of got parachuted into teaching French, like really I'm an Irish teacher, but like they find it made me teach French.

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So my level is not great. And they, and they, you can see that they're nervous about trying to deliver a whole lesson.

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In French they're like I know the grammar inside out so I'm gonna stick with that and I think that's I don't know where we can go with that I don't there's no quick answer to that.

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But I do think any of us who are native speakers of the language, like we certainly have the level like without a doubt and if we are teaching another language I think it is.

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I think it's on us to work to get to a good level of that. Like, we, you know, if I'm gonna teach, if I decide tomorrow that I'm gonna become a German teacher, And I did German in school and I did pretty well, but that's a long time ago.

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Like it's on me to go and become pretty good at German if I want to teach it in my view.

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I think I've got to do my best and even though that's difficult I might have to if I'm not living in Germany might have to listen to podcasts and watch movies and read and do a lot of work.

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But but if you want to become a great teacher you're pedagogical content knowledge needs to be high.

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So not only is it how you teach, but actually your knowledge of the language needs to be high too and I think that's That's hopefully something that people are listening to this in UK and Ireland and all around the world.

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And if you're thinking to yourself, I would love to do this stuff. But I'm not confident enough with my Spanish.

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I think the 1st step is try and go to Spain for a bit or watch a lot of Spanish movies or listen to Spanish podcasts and get that level up as far as you can.

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I think that's a good piece of insight. So yeah, thank you very much. And Tina, what about you in Germany?

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How is it received for you? Like this kind of method of teaching with with a conference input approach.

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It really depends. I think my school, my principal is very open. I have complete backup.

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I have very open colleagues. I do have critical colleagues well, but in general I think I have a very good environment, and over the years I've learned so many like little tricks and stunts.

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I kind of stole ideas from people. So Scott Benedict always uses this picture of the sponge that so the students are the sponge and the knowledge is the water, and what we do we take?

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Some spray bottle, and then we spray two times, and then we because we want water to run out like the forest output.

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But we need to like. Put it in a bucket of water, and then it's soak, and after, if we take out the sponge water will drop out.

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You don't even have to. Yes, and the coolest thing is a little thing that my close friend Charlotte Duncia does, and I did that in a staff meeting, and also we call that Elton arm.

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I love that. That's so nice.

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You call that back to school night? I think so. What she does is she asks. Do I have a volunteer who can do a little task?

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Where in a school, so who will be brave enough to do it? And then, after while somebody raises their hand, and then she hands a little piece of paper to that person nobody knows what's on that paper.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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This person opens it, and then starts, being but in a very weird way, stumbling about like we went to the zoom, and everybody is asking What on earth is on that paper, and what you writes on that paper is in German.

00:22:41.326 --> 00:23:03.326

Please tell us what you did last weekend, but only talk in the. Tom. This is like the amp cafe or something, and then she demonstrated like, Notice this person, and I mean, we're all German.

00:22:54.679 --> 00:22:56.679

Yeah.

00:23:01.979 --> 00:23:12.979

So this is the native language, and I ask this person to think of one simple rule in their native language, and that weren't able to speak freely anymore.

00:23:03.425 --> 00:23:22.425

They were stumbling. And this is so impressive because that kind of proves that you cannot think about rule, even if it's one rule and talk freely at the same time.

00:23:03.978 --> 00:23:05.978

Yeah.

00:23:13.179 --> 00:23:17.179

Yeah. Wow.

00:23:20.926 --> 00:23:28.926

It's not natural. It's not how all brains work, and every time I do this the parents, and also my colleagues.

00:23:27.479 --> 00:23:33.479

They're like, wow, she's right, my God, she might have point there.

00:23:31.126 --> 00:23:39.126

That's great. I love that. Yeah, I made sure a lot the last year the dynamic language learning conference.

00:23:37.421 --> 00:23:42.421

So yeah, like that's that's really cool. I love that. Yeah, I've made sure a lot the last year at the Dynamic Language Learning Conference.

00:23:42.280 --> 00:23:56.280

So yeah, like that's, that's really cool. I love both of those are great and all of you listening across the world right now are listening and catch up or listening in your ears or watching the video there's lots of ways you could engage take those things away and use those in your school because that's that's very very powerful I think what you've just done there I think that's a really

00:23:54.880 --> 00:24:12.880

really powerful analogy and just to say that if for anyone who is watching live on the Facebook page with the live stream go ahead and write your questions in the comments and we'll try and have a look at those at the end I know that the time is a bit difficult in the US people at work or relaxing on holidays and in the eats the evening in the Europe too so we'll see.

00:24:11.924 --> 00:24:21.924

And yeah, I think that that's that's really interesting. The one that I love is When I talk about it to workshops, I often talk about the mechanics of a car.

00:24:21.079 --> 00:24:42.079

So I often say like imagine if you started your driving lessons and you went to try and learn how to drive a car and you spent the 1st like 6 h of your lessons or more just looking at the bonnet and what's underneath and you know you open up the bonnet and then turn the screw and when you do this the gasoline comes through here and you press this there's a clutch and it raises and this comes through here

00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:52.880

and then going okay go on the can can you drive it please and then you like like I don't know what I'm doing I've never even seen anyone else drive the car like our senior drive once or twice but don't really know what you're doing.

00:24:51.930 --> 00:25:12.930

So and it's just, you know, we expect students to just learn all about the mechanics and then be just able to go and do it and you know it's just completely false like you can't do things like that so yeah I love I love both of those that's really nice so what about barriers then you know teachers who want to teach with more of an input focus and How would you recommend that you can overcome those in

00:25:11.979 --> 00:25:19.979

your context? So you know, like what do you think, Grant, in your context, are there any barriers to teaching in this way?

00:25:19.879 --> 00:25:26.879

And what could we do to overcome that? We talked a little bit already about the the level of the target language you have yourself as a teacher.

00:25:21.915 --> 00:25:29.915

But is there anything else that comes to mind?

00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:38.880

Absolutely. There's there's a number of barriers and one of the biggest barriers I think is just the status quo and the history.

00:25:38.625 --> 00:25:52.625

The history of how we teach languages in these United States really is driven from the classics. And from a focus on translation and grammatical learning.

00:25:51.078 --> 00:25:53.078

Yeah.

00:26:18.328 --> 00:26:38.328

One barrier is a curricular approach that is in trenched in a rigid. Scope and sequence that is grammatically driven that is, that, is a lined with a cultural understanding of how languages are supposed to be taught.

00:26:28.616 --> 00:26:30.616

Yeah.

00:26:37.623 --> 00:26:43.623

Well, it's like going back to your example of that holding up the page and going, you were all wrong.

00:26:42.978 --> 00:26:44.978

Right.

00:26:43.816 --> 00:26:46.816

You know, like that was a great example of the deeply held belief.

00:26:44.878 --> 00:26:55.878

Right, right. And so, and you find that belief at all levels. You find that belief, in the teachers that are teaching the languages, right?

00:26:54.314 --> 00:27:03.314

But you also find that belief in the administrator who took languages in high school and thinks that they know how languages are supposed to be talked because of that.

00:27:01.979 --> 00:27:11.979

You find that belief in the in the parents who also took language. And so there is, quite a bit of education that has to happen at the same time.

00:27:07.828 --> 00:27:19.828

That's a big barrier. I also think that one of the barriers, is a teacher's personal belief system.

00:27:19.312 --> 00:27:44.312

Right. And what they perceive to be correct or what they perceive to be, effective and that that is also something that we run into that if somebody believes that the goal of second language learning in the high school should be to approximate a native speaker as nearly as as possible.

00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:52.880

Then you know they're going to make curricular choices and and and teaching choices that align with that.

00:27:52.980 --> 00:28:01.980

And so, you know, part of part of our effort needs to be reframing. What the end goal is.

00:28:01.929 --> 00:28:08.929

And I find that a lot of times we can do that by asking questions. Like, what is it that you want?

00:28:06.518 --> 00:28:24.518

You know, would you rather have 5% of your students be, you know, proficient on this grammatical exam or would you rather have 95% of your students be able to understand and interact and communicate a little bit better.

00:28:20.878 --> 00:28:22.878

Yeah.

00:28:22.128 --> 00:28:28.128

In the other language. So.

00:28:26.528 --> 00:28:40.528

Yeah, yeah, I definitely like the deeply hard beliefs thing is it's so and there's no quick answer to that is there you know like these are these are hired these are difficult things to combat and yeah I always reach back to that.

00:28:40.079 --> 00:29:00.079

And episode I did with I'm Dr. Ed Stevens about professional identity and that great phrase he has about unbecoming you know your unbecoming your professional identity and it's an uncomfortable position to be in like whoa so you're saying everything I've done up until now has been wrong but I've tried really hard and all that so it's a difficult kind of yeah it's a difficult thing to base up

00:28:45.978 --> 00:28:47.978

Yes.

00:28:59.828 --> 00:29:10.828

It It is and it's 1 of the reasons why earlier in my career I got into some hot water with people because I felt like I was doing things that.

00:29:00.378 --> 00:29:03.378

to. But I think it's really, really important.

00:29:10.912 --> 00:29:33.912

That were that were very effective and I want I was eager to share that and I was eager to encourage others to do that and I skipped over the piece of making sure that my colleagues and I were on a firm mutual, mutual respect and and trust level.

00:29:36.180 --> 00:29:59.180

That allowed me to have difficult conversations like that, right? And that's so that's something now that I that I always lead with whenever I talk to teachers who want to convince their colleagues that it absolutely has to start with with a good positive trusting relationship before even saying I'm doing this thing that's a little bit different.

00:29:57.913 --> 00:30:08.913

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I, yeah, completely agree. And I think that that's, there's a lot of research out there around professional development and changing practices and, you know, most professional development.

00:30:06.714 --> 00:30:16.714

This is quite shocking, but like the research would show that more's professional development like over 98% it doesn't result in any change like very very little change.

00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:24.480

And very little change for students outcomes as well. Like you may you may change something small in your practice but actually it hasn't changed anything for the students.

00:30:23.982 --> 00:30:38.982

But the ones that do change something often start with quite a lot of deep knowledge building. So like kind of understanding, you know, the theory behind something in the knowledge and then the mutual respect, the support, the modeling, the practice, the feedback.

00:30:31.379 --> 00:30:51.379

There's a huge process. And that's why, you know, Like I'm 10 years into teaching this way and I want to kind of feeling now like I'm confident at it and even now I still feel like I'm always learning new stuff all the time.

00:30:51.279 --> 00:31:12.279

At the very beginning it can feel quite challenging you're learning all this stuff and like wow there's a different way to do things but how do I do it where is the support is there training in my school like the fact that grants when you came to train me you were the 3rd trainer in like 18 months you know we had like you we had a bed skeleton who just blew my mind she was so so good and obviously with

00:31:10.180 --> 00:31:25.180

Blaine Ray as well so we had like 3 people come to our school and that continuous ongoing support and feedback and coming and looking at our classes and talking to us about it helped us to make the change and so yeah I think I really agree with you.

00:31:25.208 --> 00:31:44.208

About the conversations we're colleagues and building some knowledge but doing it from a very empathetic understanding way that I'm not trying to say what you're doing is wrong at all I'm just trying to say here my doors open coming up a look and see and and if you'd like to try something out I'd love to support you with that or have a go and I'm sure things I can learn from you

00:31:43.009 --> 00:31:51.009

too. I'm sure there's things that you're doing much better than me and I would love to see that as well and yeah it's a difficult one but thanks for sharing that.

00:31:52.578 --> 00:31:58.578

And Tina, what about for you in your context? Is there barriers that are there? Are there things that are difficult to overcome for to teach in this way?

00:31:56.480 --> 00:32:03.480

Absolutely the first barrier for me was because one thing that makes a really good.

00:32:02.478 --> 00:32:13.478

Ist die It-technologie, einschließlich zu Anti Paterie. My rolemodel ist Allgemeinwohnlich durch die Einschränkung.

00:32:07.278 --> 00:32:09.278

Yeah.

00:32:13.228 --> 00:32:23.228

And then, the moment I tried it myself I was running out of questions to ask immediately, and I was like lost, so I felt like my God.

00:32:20.478 --> 00:32:22.478

Right.

00:32:23.179 --> 00:32:30.179

I need training. But there was none in Europe. I didn't know. Kissed in plant and come in waste at that time.

00:32:25.208 --> 00:32:27.208

Yeah.

00:32:29.829 --> 00:32:38.829

It wasn't two thousand thirteen. I think they started a Jean this year with like ten people, and I was too poor to broke to go back to the Us.

00:32:35.302 --> 00:32:37.302

Yeah.

00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:46.079

To get training, so I always felt like I'm not scared enough. I know this is the right way, but I can't do.

00:32:44.781 --> 00:32:59.781

It was only in two thousand eighteen when Kathryn Scheckman organized a story, listening workshop in airline and Germany with Stephen Creshen and Benico Mason that are really got a good training.

00:32:59.779 --> 00:33:05.779

Three day training, and after that I felt like, Okay, sorry, listening. I'm so trained now. It's good.

00:33:01.579 --> 00:33:08.579

Do you know, sorry to interrupt you was, was Elen Collinette there at that training as well?

00:33:09.278 --> 00:33:11.278

Yes, exactly.

00:33:10.179 --> 00:33:18.179

Yeah, cause she was just at our school doing training with our with our teachers and she mentioned the exact same workshop you've just spoken about.

00:33:15.401 --> 00:33:26.401

We randomly sat at the same table at lunch, Elen, Colleenee, Alice Ayelle, myself, and Liz.

00:33:21.527 --> 00:33:23.527

Yeah.

00:33:25.780 --> 00:33:36.780

From from England, and yes, and they told me about Aj. And then I went there the next year, and then I started to become more confident.

00:33:28.408 --> 00:33:30.408

The UK. Yeah, I know her. Yeah.

00:33:33.379 --> 00:33:35.379

Hmm.

00:33:36.205 --> 00:33:45.205

I felt like, okay. Now I know at least the method story. Listening.

00:33:38.502 --> 00:33:40.502

Hmm.

00:33:45.479 --> 00:33:54.479

I'm also like kind of a people pleaser, and I never wanted to be like a troublemaker, and tell my colleague so. No, there's a better way to do it.

00:33:53.278 --> 00:34:01.278

So I just fried it little by little, and I was always very scared that something will happen like your experience.

00:34:00.329 --> 00:34:05.329

That other teachers will say you had, Madam Abu. Yes, I'm so sorry we have to read.

00:34:05.030 --> 00:34:27.030

You everything but then I'm in my ninth year of teaching now. So in the beginning I was like very scared that I might like ruin the students, and I think it was in my fifth year I had to long term sub for a colleague who got ill seriously ill, and she was always she did everything.

00:34:25.878 --> 00:34:34.878

By the book like she, but she wasn't like a lazy teacher, or she really did everything. All the vocabulary tests everything.

00:34:29.214 --> 00:34:31.214

Yeah.

00:34:33.379 --> 00:34:44.379

And I went into that class, and I just said, and I saw the panic in the students eyes, and they couldn't even answer the simplest question, like, What day is it?

00:34:40.129 --> 00:34:52.129

What's your name? I mean? That's the first thing you learn. They couldn't answer that in French, and they were in their fifth year of learning.

00:34:45.079 --> 00:34:49.079

Yeah. Yeah.

00:34:51.378 --> 00:35:00.378

I was like, okay to hell with that. I'm going see, I know, and there's nothing to lose.

00:34:52.879 --> 00:34:54.879

Yeah.

00:34:58.228 --> 00:35:07.228

This was proved to me that the textbook method is not working, even if you do it like very carefully.

00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:02.480

Hmm. Yeah, yeah.

00:35:05.179 --> 00:35:07.179

Yeah.

00:35:08.430 --> 00:35:13.430

And this is when I really found the courage to completely make the change.

00:35:11.930 --> 00:35:25.930

Nice, yeah, yeah, I love that. That's the other such great learning for everyone. There's a few comments coming in here and yeah, just someone mentioning that like the near-native fluency thing like you mentioned, Grant, you know, like, oh, you want to get to near native fluency is very, very flawed.

00:35:24.930 --> 00:35:44.930

You know, that, does, you know, like, you Why do you want to like sound or have the accent of this person or that person and you know that accent is I really kind of push back against you know I think when I 1st moved to Switzerland I used to I used to love like if people kind of didn't pick up that I was that I was Irish because like I was speaking French in such

00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:57.280

good accent whatever that means and then very quickly I was kind of like when people did pick up on it I said like, oh that little accent I hear and I was like yeah you know where you from Ireland and then I was like Hi, I'm really proud of being from Ireland.

00:35:56.329 --> 00:36:01.329

So like why am I trying to like hide the fact that I'm from Ireland by like imitating some accent?

00:35:59.979 --> 00:36:15.979

You know, like that's probably who I am. I'm Irish. It is, I am from Ireland and I've lived in Switzerland for 10 years and yes, I have a little bit of an accident but I'm very proud of that that makes me multilingual the fact that I even are not like I don't have an accent I'm multi-ling You don't have an accident because

00:36:15.130 --> 00:36:20.130

I've never heard you speak English. So like when you speak English, you probably have an accent.

00:36:19.130 --> 00:36:39.130

So like, yeah, I think that's really powerful. And then, you know, also someone sharing that the whole idea of I talked about this at Ajon last year in my in my keynote about that we have to be very careful as a group of CI teachers or teachers who teach with this approach to not be seen as the ones shouting from the corner and not opening the doors to anybody.

00:36:37.029 --> 00:36:55.029

Like I think that's really important that we don't do that like you know what I'm doing is rice what you're doing is wrong like you need to do what I'm doing like is that's it can be really difficult when you sit in and in classes and you know on your heads this is a great teacher like they've got their kids in the palm of their hands they're explaining this grammar

00:36:53.979 --> 00:37:09.979

unbelievably well. And if they were just using more interesting inputs, my gosh their kids would be flying and it's really difficult to try and have those conversations but I've always felt The thing that I've tried to do with is just leave my door open, let people come and listen.

00:37:08.578 --> 00:37:21.578

Don't force them to anything they want to do. And but also always start with people to just like just try one tiny little thing that feels usable for you you know like maybe that's just a password at the door maybe it's .

00:37:21.278 --> 00:37:26.278

Tiny little movie talk and I think that's that's that's how we can get people to see the power.

00:37:25.928 --> 00:37:36.928

Yeah, how I really manage to get a lot of people at my school when we have our big annual staff meeting, we have, like an open face.

00:37:26.779 --> 00:37:27.779

Yeah, Tina

00:37:31.528 --> 00:37:52.528

One hour, and people can sign up to your room. So what I did is I did my brain breaks presentation.

00:37:35.879 --> 00:37:45.879

So one hour, if you want to show whatever you want, your colleagues, you can just tell the principal, and then you will get a room, and you can show whatever you want.

00:37:50.628 --> 00:38:09.628

So it was open for everybody, not only language teachers, but of course, of language. Teachers were there, and then, after a while, teachers came to me, and they said, My God, Tina, I just did some brain breaks and the relationship with my students has improved so much.

00:38:06.829 --> 00:38:08.829

Yeah.

00:38:08.730 --> 00:38:16.730

I really want to come to your conference now, because, whatever you're doing, it's working and now I'm hoped it's like the gateway drug or something.

00:38:16.028 --> 00:38:26.028

And this is how I get so many people on board. They tried some brain breaks, and then they really, because you will get immediate feedback from the students.

00:38:17.978 --> 00:38:19.978

Okay.

00:38:26.828 --> 00:38:28.828

Yeah.

00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:34.079

They will be so thrilled and happy about it. And this is a really good way to get people hooked.

00:38:32.128 --> 00:38:53.128

I agree. I completely agree. And that actually is a lovely segue to my next question actually, which is about well-being and inclusion and and I'm I'm very glad that we have more of a spotlight on well being inclusion now and you know years later when this just wasn't nobody talked about this which is a great thing that we were trying and again I use that words.

00:38:53.329 --> 00:39:09.329

Trying like I'm sure everyone in their space is trying their best to be as inclusive and as welcoming and I help kids and we've got to meet teachers where they are and everybody is included in that.

00:39:03.030 --> 00:39:14.030

No one is actively going into their students trying to make them feel worse or will I hope not and if they are then leave the person, question please because you should not be a teacher if you're trying to make your kids feel worse.

00:39:13.979 --> 00:39:23.979

But most teachers out there are doing the best they can. And I think that's a great thing and I really personally feel and this is just my take on it.

00:39:23.580 --> 00:39:47.580

That comprehensive input approaches allow me to connect. So much more and deeply and faster just like you said Tina just a few brain breaks and suddenly they're like oh you're human being you laugh like you have found like you know there's all of that side of things to it And that's why my research was on the motivational pull of teaching with Co-created stories and CI, as opposed to the kind of

00:39:48.978 --> 00:40:04.978

acquisition outcomes. Like they came as well, but I was trying to get to the point that to really connect with kids this really helps you know and so I just like to hear why you think about that Grant you know do you do you feel like teaching with the CI report helps you with well-being and inclusion in your context?

00:40:03.378 --> 00:40:13.378

There's no question. There's no question and there's a lot of evidence across the the field from folks who have been.

00:40:11.979 --> 00:40:21.979

Incorporating these strategies over over time. You know, as an example, the the Gwynett County, Georgia.

00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:42.880

School district has, been teaching Latin. And at the time when Dr. Bob Patrick started that program, there was less than less than 1% retention from one year to the to the upper levels and not and he was the only teacher and now they're like 5 Latin teachers.

00:40:42.526 --> 00:41:06.526

And all of the what's what's interesting to me when we talk about the inclusion pieces what does your student data say about your program and their program, their demographic data says, that at the upper levels of Latin, 4, 5 or AP, the demographics look exactly like the demographics from Latin one, right?

00:40:43.878 --> 00:40:45.878

Wow.

00:41:00.929 --> 00:41:15.929

So the people who are in those higher classes are representing truly the population of the school, right?

00:41:12.228 --> 00:41:19.228

So it's not just the high achievers pushing up is what you're trying to say basically.

00:41:19.528 --> 00:41:26.528

Exactly, exactly. And I think You know, when I think about, when I think about inclusion, I think about

00:41:20.528 --> 00:41:22.528

Hmm.

00:41:25.578 --> 00:41:36.578

Seeking the common denominator that makes all of us the that we all ascribe to. For example, we're all human.

00:41:35.379 --> 00:41:49.379

Humans are designed uniquely designed to acquire language and one of the main reasons we acquire language is because we seek Love, we seek connection.

00:41:45.279 --> 00:42:02.279

We seek safety. And all of our students in our classroom, they're all seeking that whether they our conscious or unconscious of that fact.

00:41:58.578 --> 00:42:00.578

Yeah.

00:42:02.378 --> 00:42:15.378

And how we use language to create that connection. Makes a big difference because we can use language to separate and we can use language to bring together.

00:42:09.779 --> 00:42:20.779

And, right. And so So I think, you know, I think that that is,

00:42:14.224 --> 00:42:16.224

Absolutely, yeah.

00:42:20.778 --> 00:42:31.778

One of the best ways that that I can our tick that I articulate that with people is that we that we make the switch from talking at students to talking with students, right?

00:42:30.527 --> 00:42:42.527

And once we make that switch, we prioritize the relationship. We prioritize the connections. We prioritize safety.

00:42:41.479 --> 00:42:49.479

We prioritize love and and students They feel that, right? They recognize that they feel that.

00:42:50.578 --> 00:42:53.578

Yeah.

00:42:50.579 --> 00:43:01.579

There's a number of things really closely and importantly linked to what you're just saying in terms of the research around motivation and how and how we work as human beings.

00:42:56.530 --> 00:43:18.530

Like the 1st one if we talk about it from from a motivational aspect is. We know from sub-termination research over 40 years plus that every human in the world is driven by the same psychological needs of confidence autonomy and relatedness like we all have those like in one way or another.

00:43:01.281 --> 00:43:03.281

Hmm.

00:43:17.824 --> 00:43:28.824

And this is the thing I often hear from people in staff rooms and workshops and people say, oh, like, oh, that, that grant, he's just so demotivated.

00:43:26.879 --> 00:43:39.879

Doesn't matter what I do, he's just so de-motivated. And then I'm like, well, is Grant's demotivated or is it just that we're not meeting their psychological indicators for motivation?

00:43:38.978 --> 00:43:44.978

Have you seen Branch when he talks to Tina about language teaching? Have you seen how motivated he is?

00:43:44.529 --> 00:43:52.529

That's, have you seen what he's doing? And it's the same with our kids like that kid who's like super demotivated or that's what, you know, we're here.

00:43:50.929 --> 00:44:01.929

Look at them outside at lunchtime. Do they have to be motivated? No, like highly motivated. Look at them talking about Minecraft in the morning as they wait for home room to begin.

00:44:00.922 --> 00:44:07.922

Are they suddenly demotivated? No, they're highly motivated because they're doing something that hits their psychological indicators.

00:44:05.429 --> 00:44:26.429

That it doesn't exist. That doesn't exist. What what exists is that people are not having their psychological needs met at that particular moment in their life at whatever is going on at that moment and that's that's really important and secondly is when you get that motivation.

00:44:07.324 --> 00:44:13.324

And so that's the really important thing is there's no such thing as a demotivated human being.

00:44:25.422 --> 00:44:35.422

People lean in to the learning a lot more and what happens when you lean into a room that is full of interesting inputs you acquire lots of language.

00:44:34.179 --> 00:44:47.179

You acquire Lord's language and when you acquire loads of language you feel better about it so you got higher confidence so now you're more motivated so now you're getting in more so now you learn more and you're in this like lovely cycle and that's that's where it all comes from.

00:44:48.630 --> 00:44:58.630

And yeah, so Tina, I'd love to kind of hear the same in your context. You feel like teaching in this way in Germany, does it, does it help with well-being and inclusion among the student population?

00:44:56.928 --> 00:45:12.928

I just recently had the most amazing experience, because, as you know, Jonathan Mcbride came to spend some time with me, and since it was, I think he got some scholarship or something for that, we needed to organize everything like one year in advance.

00:45:07.228 --> 00:45:21.228

So he asked me if he could come, and I said, Yeah, sure, why not? And I didn't even know what classes I would have.

00:45:10.628 --> 00:45:12.628

Yeah.

00:45:20.326 --> 00:45:33.326

So when he actually came, one of my class had already left another class was, I don't know, on a field trip or something, so I had some big gaps in my scheduling.

00:45:20.778 --> 00:45:22.778

Yeah. Yeah.

00:45:31.979 --> 00:45:44.979

It was like kind of ashamed that once he's here, I want to really work with him. So what I did then is, I asked some colleagues you do have a French class that would it be okay for you if you just sit in the back.

00:45:36.278 --> 00:46:05.278

So the and they were very open to that. So we went into. Classes. I don't even teach, and we designed a lesson, and then we did it in one class.

00:45:37.527 --> 00:45:39.527

Yeah.

00:45:44.179 --> 00:45:53.179

And I teach. And Johnny comes with me, and then we do a lesson, and we evaluate it, together with the students.

00:46:00.878 --> 00:46:21.878

Then we improved it, and did it in in another class, and the teachers were present, and when we talked about how the students like the lessons, even the teacher, she, like, raised her hand and she said, I really have to say so.

00:46:20.728 --> 00:46:29.728

Many people who have never said a word in my French class have participated today, and I'm like blown away by that fact.

00:46:20.829 --> 00:46:34.829

So it's not you. It's me. That's what one teacher, and I was like, really, wow.

00:46:25.678 --> 00:46:27.678

Wow.

00:46:34.579 --> 00:46:42.579

And yeah, the participation which is so high. And this is the power of Ci. It's just a safe place.

00:46:36.981 --> 00:46:50.981

It's engaging. It's interesting. And even students who usually never say anything, participate.

00:46:40.879 --> 00:46:42.879

Yeah.

00:46:48.028 --> 00:46:55.028

Yeah. And I think that it's really important to state at this juncture, like I always find state this as well, is that we are not.

00:46:53.479 --> 00:47:04.479

I certainly am not trying to say that by teaching with the comprehensive input approach, you've automatically, you've automatically hit diversity, equity and inclusion and you're good.

00:47:03.228 --> 00:47:07.228

Like, oh, I teach at CI, so I don't need to talk about the target culture.

00:47:05.929 --> 00:47:15.929

I don't need to be inclusive to people who look different sound different? Absolutely not. What we're saying or at least what I'm trying to say is it helps students to really lean into the learning.

00:47:09.128 --> 00:47:35.128

It helps them to feel safe in a sense of belonging. And that for me is when I do talk about kind of fragile topics or things that are maybe a little bit close to the bone to do with culture or to do with you know ethnicity and to do with you know the way that you were brought up versus you were brought up and the way that you speak and you speak and being inclusive in that sense.

00:47:35.326 --> 00:47:44.326

And when we talk and center our classes around the minorities, people lean in a lot more because they're now a lot more interested in making the more open to that in my opinion.

00:47:44.180 --> 00:48:05.180

But I definitely want that to come across to people that I'm certainly and I don't think any of us are trying to say that you're automatically being you know diversity equity and inclusion is box ticked by doing CI it's a gateway to more conversations it's a gateway to more belonging it's a gateway to having more inclusion in your room which allows for those deeper topics to be more

00:48:06.025 --> 00:48:10.025

powerful. I see you're not in Grant, I see you're not in Tina, so I think you're agreeing, right?

00:48:09.881 --> 00:48:11.881

Absolutely. Yes.

00:48:11.079 --> 00:48:21.079

Good, good, good. Right now we're going to talk a little bit about some practical things because I, you know, you're both amazing teachers and I want to I want to learn some stuff from you.

00:48:11.729 --> 00:48:13.729

Yes.

00:48:19.478 --> 00:48:26.478

So I'm gonna ask you both for 2 of your favorite kind of activities that that are full of CI.

00:48:25.929 --> 00:48:31.929

And the people listening to this right now all around the world are thinking I could actually give that a go.

00:48:33.229 --> 00:48:44.229

So I'll go to you first, st Tina. What are your favorite CI activities, your go-to activities and the teachers could literally be making some notes on now and could potentially try out themselves.

00:48:44.378 --> 00:48:52.378

I love the story, listening, and it's I think it's very good if you have, like your favorite story, that you can always tell that you know by heart.

00:48:50.628 --> 00:49:17.628

So you don't need a script, actually, and it needs to be a really good story. So, thanks to Katherine Checkman and Venico Mason, I'm really trained in story listening, and I was looking for good stories, and they do have a website called stories first dot org or net if you Google it you will find it and benico was was giving a

00:49:11.624 --> 00:49:13.624

Yeah. Yeah.

00:49:19.228 --> 00:49:32.228

Demo, and it's a little movie, and it's a story from the grim brothers, and it's called the Rubber Room, and I didn't know it, even though I am German. But I didn't know the story, and she was.

00:49:32.680 --> 00:49:44.680

Telling the story in English, and in the end she kind of she starts cuffing, and somebody's giving her a glass of water, and they stop the video, and she doesn't tell the ending.

00:49:43.928 --> 00:49:50.928

They just, I need to know how the story ends. And then I started Googling. And it's like my God.

00:49:46.224 --> 00:50:01.224

The story. Listening thing is really working. I absolutely need to know how the story ends now, and the students have it has the same effect on the students.

00:49:48.778 --> 00:49:50.778

Okay.

00:49:54.529 --> 00:49:56.529

Hmm.

00:49:58.524 --> 00:50:07.524

So if I have to stop, have to jump in for a colleague, I always tell the rubber room.

00:50:01.530 --> 00:50:03.530

Interesting.

00:50:05.478 --> 00:50:16.478

I tell it in English or in French, and the moment it's over, the students are like this, and they're like, tell us another story.

00:50:15.278 --> 00:50:25.278

And this so great, because especially if you have to sub you, step into the room. And the first thing they're asking for I say, can we wait to movie? We would?

00:50:20.579 --> 00:50:22.579

Yeah.

00:50:23.728 --> 00:50:31.728

Don't wanna have class, and then you start with the stories, and they're like, this was my best English lesson I ever had.

00:50:25.529 --> 00:50:27.529

Yeah.

00:50:31.326 --> 00:50:42.326

I wanted not this story, so I would highly encourage everybody to try out a story. Listening with with a good story that you know by heart.

00:50:39.528 --> 00:50:48.528

The second thing is, I always have USB. Stick with a couple of.

00:50:42.379 --> 00:50:44.379

Perfect.

00:50:48.228 --> 00:50:51.228

Prepaßt.

00:50:50.029 --> 00:51:00.029

So like with a screenshots, a Powerpoint where you take screenshots beforehand. So my students really love the one with the dog.

00:50:50.928 --> 00:50:52.928

Okay.

00:50:59.128 --> 00:51:09.128

I think it's called Canine University. The dog who wants to become a guide dog, but not tall enough for something they really love, that.

00:51:06.729 --> 00:51:29.729

I'm not smart enough, and in the end it's good that the dog is too small, and I also we love hell of, and the sneak attack with the punk and the grandmother.

00:51:08.229 --> 00:51:14.229

And I love this in the school setting, because many students always feel like I'm not good enough for this.

00:51:08.379 --> 00:51:10.379

Alright.

00:51:15.328 --> 00:51:17.328

Hmm.

00:51:20.535 --> 00:51:22.535

Yeah.

00:51:26.179 --> 00:51:30.179

Yeah, it's not Kitak is always a good one. Yeah, that's a good one.

00:51:28.429 --> 00:51:48.429

I did that one really recently. So yeah, I I completely agree and actually under the jump in and the bit about movie talkers, Ellen when she was here last week gave us a great little and extension on Chrome which is just called screenshot I think if you call it a screenshot for YouTube and basically you put it on to Chrome and then when you're watching a YouTube video there's a little camera icon

00:51:47.630 --> 00:51:55.630

at the bottom and you just click it like that click click click and it takes the screenshots and saves them as JPEGs on your desktop and so they're all ready.

00:51:54.780 --> 00:52:12.780

You don't have to like screenshot, save, save as none of that it's just click click so fast and so good so so that's really cool yeah love those both thank you so much and I totally agree The power of story listening is amazing and I'm actually going to be doing a research project on this next year with a new class I have.

00:52:12.529 --> 00:52:24.529

I'm going to do story listening with them. Once week over the space of like 3 or 4 months quite an advanced class and I'm gonna try and do some like testing before and after and see you know what happens in that as well.

00:52:23.979 --> 00:52:35.979

Yeah, I'd like to add that, especially if you're new to Ci. Because if you do like a classical Tprs, the students, they will get really excited, and they want to share their ideas, and it can get really loud?

00:52:24.929 --> 00:52:25.929

So yeah, Tina, go ahead.

00:52:29.429 --> 00:52:41.429

And if you're not really sure about what you're doing, this can be very intimidating and scary.

00:52:41.429 --> 00:52:50.429

But if you do a story listing or a movie talk, the story is already set, and you are like moderating through it, and the students are not even asked to share their ideas.

00:52:50.679 --> 00:52:55.679

So that's a really good technique for beginners.

00:52:53.129 --> 00:53:01.129

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I completely agree. Yeah, and a lot of people want to immediately start with TPRS and Ccreated stories.

00:53:00.679 --> 00:53:08.679

For me personally, I think that one should come later. It takes more scale and it's a lot of classroom management and all the ideas.

00:53:01.030 --> 00:53:16.030

And I feel like if you get few other CI activities under your bouts like special person interview or building an invisible character.

00:53:08.579 --> 00:53:24.579

Or as you said, a movie talk, picture talk, like things like that, then you've practiced the circling technique, you've done a lot of questions and they're much more open to that.

00:53:25.528 --> 00:53:30.528

Grant, what about you? What are your go to CI activities or ones you'd like to share with people?

00:53:29.679 --> 00:53:45.679

Well, you've mentioned a couple of them just now, Liam. I think that, in in the trainings that I've done one of the things that I have heard from people all over is that it's challenging to move.

00:53:44.379 --> 00:53:57.379

To. One of the challenges is knowing which question to ask next. Or being able to sustain.

00:53:54.431 --> 00:53:56.431

Yeah.

00:53:56.930 --> 00:54:13.930

Communication back and forth back and forth for a long period of time right and I think So when I when I was thinking about these this question in these activities I was thinking about which activities.

00:54:13.781 --> 00:54:24.781

Help. Can help teachers to get better at that. And so the the 1st one that I identified was picture talk because it's very simple.

00:54:23.330 --> 00:54:38.330

There's an image that's provided. And a teacher can really just practice. You know, looking with the class at the picture and asking questions and then following up with the next question and that sort of thing.

00:54:38.279 --> 00:55:02.279

But I am a big believer in the co creation piece. And in tapping into the imagination because one of my underlying beliefs is that the United States educational system is becoming more and more homogeneous with, how they want teachers to teach and what the school experience is throughout the course of a day.

00:54:43.831 --> 00:54:45.831

Yeah, yeah, me too.

00:54:58.030 --> 00:55:14.030

And so. I find that the co-creation piece really drives students. Desire to be in the room and to be participating and engaging.

00:55:14.343 --> 00:55:26.343

And so from that co creation perspective, I enjoy the, I enjoy starting the school year off with card talk or what used to be called circling with balls.

00:55:16.331 --> 00:55:18.331

Yeah.

00:55:27.728 --> 00:55:40.728

And that's a really great technique, especially if you have some of that basic questioning down because You, you immediately start learning about who the people are who are in front of you and what's.

00:55:37.478 --> 00:55:42.478

Brian, tell us, tell us a bit more for the people who don't know what you're talking about.

00:55:42.329 --> 00:55:46.329

So what, is Kari Talk? So explain a bit more.

00:55:44.439 --> 00:55:53.439

Sure, sure. So what I like to do is, give each, student, maybe a 3 by 5, inch.

00:55:52.730 --> 00:56:03.730

Note card and have them do a couple of drawings what's what's something that you enjoy doing in your free time?

00:56:00.629 --> 00:56:07.629

What's an instrument that you like to play or listen to? What's something you're really, really good at?

00:56:06.879 --> 00:56:19.879

What's your favorite animal? You know, any kind of anything like that depending on the age, you know, you can tap into things that are middle school, you know, 13 year olds and 14 year olds.

00:56:18.429 --> 00:56:26.429

They love animals. They love their music. They love, you know, all these kinds of things. Because it's all about identity.

00:56:25.178 --> 00:56:35.178

It's all about who they are becoming. And when you tap into that. Sorry, I'll step back to the to the process.

00:56:34.479 --> 00:56:48.479

So you have these cards and then you'll take a card and you'll begin to ask some questions or make some statements about one of the people, and you'll begin to ask some questions or make some statements about one of the people, the person that's on that card.

00:56:47.329 --> 00:56:59.329

And it's, it's that simple. It can go for 5 min or it can go for an hour and a half, depending on how the energy is flowing and how good you are at sustaining that.

00:56:58.528 --> 00:57:13.528

That communication back and forth. But one of the important parts there is to then hold the other students in the room responsible for knowing about their classmate.

00:57:13.030 --> 00:57:23.030

Right. And, what ends up happening is over the course of time is that we come together as a group because we know things about each other.

00:57:14.678 --> 00:57:16.678

Yeah.

00:57:20.581 --> 00:57:39.581

That the math teacher and the science teacher, they're not taking the time to to do that. To build those connections so I, so I, that's 1 i really love and I see that Tina has something to add there.

00:57:30.978 --> 00:57:32.978

Yeah, yeah.

00:57:37.130 --> 00:57:46.130

Yeah, I love that I really love that because that's what Cecilia needed in her friendship, in azure.

00:57:39.384 --> 00:57:41.384

Go ahead, Tina.

00:57:43.933 --> 00:57:52.933

She did the car talk, and then she found out that Albert, from Soya Idiomas, who's having a conference in Spain, that he was a drummer.

00:57:48.629 --> 00:58:02.629

He drew some drums, and then the next day she prepared a brain break with some body percussion, or something.

00:58:02.128 --> 00:58:14.128

So she really get to know something special about everybody in in the room, and then she always had a follow-up like, even three days after that you were like my God.

00:58:07.728 --> 00:58:09.728

Yeah.

00:58:11.837 --> 00:58:21.837

She remembered that, and now she made that for me, and Adrira Ramirez did something similar.

00:58:20.028 --> 00:58:34.028

I took a Spanish class also, and was in her lab. She started the day with and it was like this little riddle this person comes from Germany, and this person likes to drink.

00:58:32.334 --> 00:58:45.334

We talked about that in Germany. You think like ice ice cafe, so it's coffee with vanilla ice cream and with dream like she drinks this crazy, crazy thing called, and I was like my heart starts.

00:58:43.128 --> 00:58:45.128

Okay.

00:58:44.979 --> 00:58:50.979

Beating because I knew it was mean. I mean, I'm a forty year old woman, and she got me excited.

00:58:49.078 --> 00:58:52.078

Yeah. Yeah.

00:58:49.579 --> 00:58:57.579

So imagine the effect on our students when it's really about them, and we want to get to know about them.

00:58:53.578 --> 00:58:55.578

Yeah, totally.

00:58:57.178 --> 00:59:03.178

So grant I love that, and this is so powerful, and I love doing that myself too.

00:58:59.179 --> 00:59:06.179

Yeah. And I think one of the best things, Grant, about Carried Talk is is the simplicity.

00:59:04.578 --> 00:59:11.578

Like it's it's the simplicity of it and it's something that I I still do ever since your workshop 10 years ago.

00:59:09.529 --> 00:59:23.529

I do it every at the beginning of every year. And they and sometimes I'll use them right in the start and sometimes I won't use them for months but then I'll notice that Tina has come now for 3 days in a role and has been way quieter than Norma.

00:59:21.378 --> 00:59:28.378

Like there's something on with Tina, but I don't know what it is. And I'll just quickly take out her card and be like, right, so she drew a horse.

00:59:26.980 --> 00:59:47.980

So tomorrow I'm having something about horses like whatever it is it's gonna be about horses and they'll be like some silly YouTube thing about horses or something and then of course I go to the classic like so anybody like horses anyone have a horse or you know it's like oh Tina you like's why oh you like horses and what you used to horse ride on nice okay we'll learn about her and the level

00:59:45.278 --> 01:00:01.278

up I kind of added to it this year kind of by accident because I'd really rowdy class and I was trying to pull things together a little bit but I added this year in each in their notebooks now they they'll have a page that is just the name of the page is Tina.

01:00:00.441 --> 01:00:21.441

And throughout the whole year they add to that page. So everyone in the class has a page so we learned today that Grant is from Minnesota and that he really enjoys his coffee and then that will learn that and then it's like add that to your class page and so you're getting this whole learning about everyone and then they're doing it together, they're learning who they are, they can recall it, will make up

01:00:19.732 --> 01:00:31.732

little city quizzes about it and stuff and we're all learning about each other at the same time because on different days it'll be different things but the card talk is a great catalyst for those conversations.

01:00:32.178 --> 01:00:45.178

In, world language classrooms, there's always a big. Emphasis historically there's always been there's an important emphasis on talking about culture.

01:00:33.028 --> 01:00:34.028

Yeah, go ahead, Grant.

01:00:44.729 --> 01:00:53.729

And the culture of the the people whose language you're learning, right, in this in this context.

01:00:52.179 --> 01:01:13.179

And I this is the kind of thing that I believe. Needs to. Needs to, evolve a little bit because we historically have sort of assumed a monolithic culture at home and a monolithic culture.

01:01:13.234 --> 01:01:19.234

Abroad, whether that's in Spain or in Mexico or the Francophone, whatever, whatever it is.

01:01:17.428 --> 01:01:23.428

This is what it means to be a French speaker. This is what it means to be a German speaker.

01:01:22.379 --> 01:01:34.379

And That's not the way that the world is, right? Like within, within the diaspora of German speaking countries.

01:01:28.944 --> 01:01:30.944

Okay.

01:01:32.528 --> 01:01:48.528

There's in, you know what I mean? So I, I believe that intercultural competence, the ability for our students to look at people who sound different or look different or do different things than than they do.

01:01:47.831 --> 01:02:00.831

Really begins in our classrooms with them learning to respect and honor and understand one another and in and in particular in the United States.

01:01:59.578 --> 01:02:21.578

Where we have such a heightened political discourse. And the, the long term effects of slavery and all of everything that goes into that and you know it To me, it is it is the most important thing and if I can teach if I can help students.

01:02:20.828 --> 01:02:28.828

Get to know and respect and and love the person sitting next to them. It's going to be easier for them.

01:02:27.680 --> 01:02:46.680

When they do get an opportunity to to go abroad or when they do meet somebody who speaks another language. And that to me is a different, that's like turning, turning things on its head a little bit because the the goal used to be well sometime you might travel abroad Right.

01:02:28.041 --> 01:02:30.041

Yeah.

01:02:41.679 --> 01:02:42.679

Yeah.

01:02:47.929 --> 01:03:06.929

And, you know, the kids that I teach. They're not traveling abroad anytime soon. Right, but they are sitting next to somebody who has a different religion they are sitting next to somebody who speaks a different mother tongue they are you know what i mean so Yeah.

01:02:54.542 --> 01:02:56.542

Yeah.

01:03:01.879 --> 01:03:06.879

Yeah, totally, totally. No, I think that's really important. It's a really good aside.

01:03:05.436 --> 01:03:13.436

So unbelievably, we've been speaking for over an hour already and yeah, it's just like we could talk for the next 5 h, right?

01:03:12.538 --> 01:03:17.538

So are you both okay to say for another 10 min? Is that okay? I've got a few.

01:03:17.129 --> 01:03:22.129

One or 2 things that so we one question here that I think I'd like to ask both of you about.

01:03:21.181 --> 01:03:35.181

It's come in from Lacey and she asks, and the 1st couple weeks of school, do you stay in the target language the whole time or do you have breaks in English to explain class rules, a language is acquired, etc.

01:03:31.379 --> 01:03:37.379

And crimes. What do you think about that one?

01:03:35.279 --> 01:03:48.279

Yes, it's very important. For me, in my, in my opinion and in my space that, that I start immediately with the target language.

01:03:47.279 --> 01:03:55.279

But I use English number one because that's the lingua franca of the students that I that I teach.

01:03:54.739 --> 01:04:16.739

But I use English to strategically. teach and model classroom expectations. So I will change the tone of my voice when I switch into English and I will and and it will be sort of an auditory, parentheses between whatever it is that I'm doing in the target language.

01:04:11.829 --> 01:04:22.829

Remember everybody, I'd like you to keep your eyes up and your, you know, whatever it is that I want them to be to doing, right?

01:04:20.930 --> 01:04:22.930

Yeah, right. Okay.

01:04:22.779 --> 01:04:34.779

And then I'll switch back into you know and so yes I do I go back and forth but I tried to reserve English for classroom management especially at the beginning of the year.

01:04:24.978 --> 01:04:26.978

Okay.

01:04:34.630 --> 01:04:36.630

Nice. Okay, and Tina?

01:04:34.729 --> 01:04:44.729

Same, exactly the same. I try to keep everything in the target language would when we're talking about the rules, expectations, classroom management.

01:04:38.731 --> 01:04:54.731

Then this is going to be in German, and sometimes we do the okay pop up grammar. Why did I put a second E on fatigue? Or I don't really know.

01:04:54.930 --> 01:05:09.930

Okay. Yeah. And from my perspective, Lacy, where I am, I If you listen to the podcast, you know that I spend the 1st class with my total beginners, when my tall beginners, I spend the 1st double period speaking almost entirely in English.

01:04:55.579 --> 01:04:59.579

Then it's going to be in German as well, but just as short as possible.

01:05:08.738 --> 01:05:14.738

And I know that's different other people, but it's the way that I do it and what works in my context.

01:05:12.442 --> 01:05:21.442

And the reason for that is we've build together, we spend the entire double period building the class constitution, which is all of the things you've just spoken about.

01:05:17.279 --> 01:05:32.279

How do we as Cecilia talks about how do we build trust? What is a linguist and what is a fun class and we really delve deep into this and I get them all on my side and we build this constitution.

01:05:31.530 --> 01:05:41.530

And then I say to them in the next class I'm gonna be speaking just in Spanish but like don't worry I'm gonna take count of all of this and then they come back the next class and I am I'm full in Spanish then.

01:05:40.729 --> 01:05:54.729

Rules and all of those things they've all been established in the class constitution. I course sometimes need to go back to it and I'll just point to it and now and again I may need to kind of say okay you know power sending place like just an English pause for a second.

01:05:53.430 --> 01:06:00.430

You know, you do realize that that's not okay to say that right now, like you get, boy, that's much for the sake. Okay, let's go.

01:06:00.238 --> 01:06:05.238

And then we're back into Spanish. But those are rare and as the year goes on they become less and less.

01:06:03.329 --> 01:06:10.329

So, so yeah, thank you for that. Right, we are coming towards the end of this. I would love to chat all night, but I can't.

01:06:06.180 --> 01:06:23.180

I do have other responsibilities. As you do, I'm sure as well. Get a few of our questions and I want to just really own in the last question that we had thought about beforehand which is your takeaways.

01:06:15.829 --> 01:06:32.829

So, and maybe you can address some of the other things if that is is in there, you know, about output and input, but I really wanna know like what you want people to take away from this conversation.

01:06:27.930 --> 01:06:38.930

So, so right now there's people listening to this. In the years in Japan while they're walking their dog.

01:06:37.324 --> 01:06:46.324

There's someone in Australia listen to this while they're cooking their dinner. There's somebody listening to this in Ireland while they're drinking a point to get us and I'm jealous about that.

01:06:41.279 --> 01:06:51.279

But they, I, there are people all over the world and that kind of blows my mind actually when I think about that.

01:06:46.926 --> 01:06:48.926

Okay.

01:06:51.118 --> 01:06:59.118

I would love you to just what are your key takeaways? You can give me one or 2 or 3, whatever suits you that you would like them to take away from this.

01:06:52.522 --> 01:06:54.522

Yeah.

01:07:00.578 --> 01:07:03.578

So, Tina, do you have one or 2 that you would like to share with everybody?

01:07:02.406 --> 01:07:12.406

Absolutely so. Don't be scared to try something new. We always have this thing in our head that we are scared, and we might fail.

01:07:10.280 --> 01:07:25.280

Most of the students, so many, many people are not satisfied with the school system as it is, and you will be so surprised by people how many people are going to thank you for trying something.

01:07:24.179 --> 01:07:34.179

Students are desperately longing for change. They're bored to death and language classes. So be scared to try something new.

01:07:31.379 --> 01:07:41.379

The second thing is, you don't have to have an all or nothing. Mentality. You don't have to make a switch overnight.

01:07:31.579 --> 01:07:51.579

It's enough you try one little thing five minutes. You can have your like normal inquitation marks lesson and then try something the last five minutes of lesson.

01:07:50.529 --> 01:08:01.529

Just brain break, or a little, started listening with a quick five minute story. It doesn't have to be all on nothing.

01:08:00.303 --> 01:08:08.303

And the last thing many ways of doing things. It can be so intimidating. Many Ci teachers.

01:08:01.504 --> 01:08:14.504

They're all very outgoing extra words. And they're very charismatic and very good at what they're doing.

01:08:14.310 --> 01:08:24.310

And at the beginning I was looking at them, and I like I cannot do that. They produce producing laughter every thirty seconds, and they're so charismatic.

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And I'm not like that, but there's really no right. I'm wrong by now.

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I've seen many very quiet and shy people doing amazing. Ci lists, so you don't have to be like a crazy, funny extra word to give it a try.

01:08:29.909 --> 01:08:42.909

Just start.

01:08:40.479 --> 01:09:03.479

I love that. Thank you so much, Seeing all 3 of those are just fantastic. They are brilliant things I've said many many times and I often give the example of Diane Noibauer as someone who When I saw her teach Chinese and you know I'd previously only seen quite extrovert teachers and were like using their hands a lot and laughter and she was so good at standing in one place and just using her

01:08:51.828 --> 01:08:53.828

Exactly. Yeah.

01:09:02.780 --> 01:09:12.780

face. To convey amazing emotions and just like just using her face and looking, oh really, thought about it like that. And it was her personality. It was her.

01:09:11.630 --> 01:09:17.630

She was being real. And that's what made it so much more powerful. And, and yes, absolutely.

01:09:15.579 --> 01:09:21.579

Be real, be who you are, try something new out and don't be afraid to change. Love that. Brilliant.

01:09:19.728 --> 01:09:25.728

Okay, Grant, beat that.

01:09:22.402 --> 01:09:40.402

Yeah, I don't know if I'll be able to but I agree a hundred percent with what Tina has said when I thought about this question about the takeaways, I thought about I've been thinking a lot about people's belief systems and about the way that people are the goals that we have for our students.

01:09:40.129 --> 01:09:53.129

And so the takeaways that that I would encourage, are more, internal more cognitive for for the teacher who is contemplating a change.

01:09:53.129 --> 01:10:08.129

Right. And, and, those are to ask yourself about to spend some time contemplating what your goals are for not just your students, but for our for the society that you live in, right?

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Is it more important to have? Good language skills for kids who are already high achieving who are already college bound who are representative of the dominant culture or Is it better perhaps that we have language acquisition for everyone?

01:10:23.029 --> 01:10:36.029

Maybe not everybody gets to that high level, but everybody develops the capacity to. Understand other people, right?

01:10:32.580 --> 01:10:45.580

And to, you know, that's 1 thing. The other thing, contemplate what's more important, perfection or communication.

01:10:44.778 --> 01:10:54.778

Or and it's not necessarily a strict dichotomy, it's just like You know, thinking about those things.

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And, and the 3rd thing that I wrote on my, on my notes here to say is that actually it may be a little bit, repetitive, but I put more people, developing stronger comprehension skills and stronger understanding versus fewer people developing a higher production skills.

01:11:10.597 --> 01:11:38.597

I guess it is kind of repetitive, but but I think that those are you know those are some of the things that I would encourage people to consider if they are interested in this and or have heard about it, it's on it's important to understand the why behind it and and the why is is really about embracing language acquisition for everybody embracing more communication, less perfection, embracing.

01:11:11.879 --> 01:11:13.879

Hmm.

01:11:40.206 --> 01:11:49.206

Just what I just said. Okay.

01:11:43.030 --> 01:12:03.030

I love that. I kind of brings it to a lovely clothes. Honestly, those 3 things that you've just said, Grimes, about, about, you know, that we want more communication over perfection that we want to have a society of which we're working to everyone and the perfection is a matter and that we're actually trying to reach way more kids like all of those things are so powerful and the 2

01:12:03.006 --> 01:12:10.006

things important said both of your takeaways. For me, essentially like sum up 120 episodes of this podcast.

01:12:08.928 --> 01:12:14.928

So, so thank you very, very much. That was really, really powerful. And a huge thank you to everybody.

01:12:13.479 --> 01:12:24.479

For listening. We could easily talk for hours longer and thank you so much the CI reboot for inviting us and for letting us do this. It's really wonderful.

01:12:23.078 --> 01:12:29.078

We've got the wonderful PLAD who is who was drawing currently and making notes. About this session.

01:12:28.332 --> 01:12:36.332

So, and finally, to all of you who've been able to join us live on the live stream and for your questions.

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I'm sorry I didn't get to them all but thank you very much and to all of you listening to this, I'm sorry I didn't get to them all, but thank you very much and to all of you listening to this round the world, a huge G, a.

01:12:42.596 --> 01:12:56.596

So of course we need to finish it's the motivated classroom podcast. So we weren't trying to remember our Irish expression from today which was the motivated classroom podcast so we might try and remember our Irish expression from today which was larger, which means strength together, which I think is is quite fitting actually for everything that we've just spoken about.

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And I think one big takeaway from me is the power of networks and talking to others and going to workshops and attending things and meeting people like all 3 of us spoke about these connections we had made and someone who inspired us and then we went there and then they inspired me and then I found this person and they inspired him or her and and all of that, it's that sense of relatedness.

01:13:17.598 --> 01:13:23.598

Is really, really important and it brings us all together. So, so, Grant, 1st of all, a huge thank you to you.

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Thank you for joining us.

01:13:25.929 --> 01:13:27.929

Thank you. Thank you so much, Liam. It's so great to be here.

01:13:27.696 --> 01:13:31.696

And Tina Villanine. Thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it.

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That's why super. Thank you so much.